I know this is a very "broad question" but I'm having a little problem here...I'm putting a couple of b&w photos in a local competion and have decided to order from MPIX through Zenfolio. I have calibrated my monitor visually from a color standard sent to me by MPIX but not sure that correlates to b&w. My files are sRGB jpegs. I plan to order black rounded frames glassed with white matt. So here are my questions:

1. Paper: Ilford true b&w, e-surface or metallic..I don't want to end up with any color hue

2. MPIX color correction: Do they adjust b&w's and should I give them that option?

Again, I know this is a pretty broad question but I would really like some feed back on your experience.

Thanks.

1. Ilford True B&W is your choice. It does not have any color dye, so you'll get a true black & white print.

2. Mpix color correction also includes adjusting contrast and density, so it is generally recommended to leave it on.

I appreciate you taking a stand, responding and giving your advice.... I'll give it shot and let you know how it turns out....I realize it's hard to give that kind of advice because of the many variables. Just to let you know that your suggestion was what I was kind of thinking of trying if I didn't get a response. I feel a litttle more comfortable placing my order because of your response. Again, thank you...

This thread is partially addressed in this thread re: B&W and sepia display for visitors:

http://forums.zenfolio.com/forums/p/473/2549.aspx#2549  I do not know if Steve Lockyer uses the same RGB to grayscale conversion process that I do; I would be interested to know, though.

However, your question is one I had asked MPix for more details about a few weeks ago re: their B&W and sepia prints: specifically, how they do the conversion from RGB to greyscale in their software. I did not receive an answer (nor did I receive the paper samples I ordered from them 5 weeks ago), so I had MPix print 5 test prints (1-5 below) of 2 files. I let MPix do "color correction" on all 5 of the prints:

First file: RBG: I took an RGB file and had MPix 1) print it in color on their color paper, 2) convert it to sepia and print it on their color paper, and 3) convert it to B&W and print it on their Ilford B&W paper.

Second file: B&W: I also took a file that I converted to greyscale myself. I have found that the coversion method I prefer in PhotoShop is this: 

a. I take the RGB file and split the channels.

b. I decide which channel, R, G, or B gives me the most pleasing tonal value for the subject (for people, it is often the red channel).

c. I then make any levels or other edits to this file I want to, convert it back to RGB (since MPix states their colorspace requirement is sRGB), and saved the new file.

I had MPix do 2 prints of my converted B&W file, 4) they converted it to sepia and printed it on their color paper, and 5) they printed it on B&W.

I did not have any tests done on the metallic paper.

Results:

MPix B&W prints from File#1, the RGB file, were exactly what I would expect from a file that was converted from RGB to greyscale using "Mode." The tonal range is heavy in the middle range, i.e., the print looks muddy. It is the same as what happens if one takes a color negative and makes a print on B&W paper on a darkroom enlarger using chemicals. Prints from File#2, my B&W conversion file, looked much cleaner. The advantage to splitting the channels is that it is better at clearing the middle range, giving better contrast and making the image look more like a traditional B&W print. I also like the surface of the Ilford B&W paper better -- it's flat and more matte-like.

The low-down: from my experience, whether I print on my Epson, or have MPix make the print, if I have them print a sepia or B&W that I have converted myself in Photoshop. I hope this helps.

Hi Woodward, I use a slightly different process "most" or the time, but not all. 

For true black and whites I actually convert to greyscale in RAW, this seems to give the best colourcast control over the end result.  Colour correction I do myself and never want a lab messing with what I have sent out.  Also I don't print in sRGB only RGB so I can't help there, although I thought sRGB's colour gaumet whas not a wide as RGB.  I have put a RAW greyscale conversion image in for example . http://stevelockyer.zenfolio.com/p550968777/?photo=680156029

My normal print paper if kodak endura metallic and I print virtually nothing in lustre or gloss. 

Thanks, Steve for posting to this discussion. I would agree that manipulating images in RAW is the preferable way to have control without losing data, grayscale conversion included.

Do you use MPix lab?

I also posted some images to demonstrate the process that I mentioned, here:

http://photos.lynnwoodwardphotography.com/p897436616

And clicking back and forth on the two grayscale images in the Zenfolio display shows the differences quite well. There is more value contrast in the split channel method and I think it works well for the more distant photo, but for the close portrait, I may decide against it after all -- it does "smooth" skin, but I see lost highlights in the eyes, and more pixels getting pushed to the extreme lights and darks (i.e., his hair goes much ligher, and hers, much darker), losing some detail with this conversion.

Thanks again.

I have not used MPix, I use digilabs.com.au in Australia.  They are outstanding for quality and turn around times.

Let me know when you have some portrait conversions up and running

 Well, of course, why spend fuel on shipping to the other side of the planet!?

The URL in my last post now has the link code under it.

Thanks, Lynn 

I can't believe it...I've already received my framed photos ordered from MPIX on Saturday (today is Tuesday) excellent turnaround, more like phenomenal. I went with AF [Zenfolio]'s advice:

"1. Ilford True B&W is your choice. It does not have any color dye, so you'll get a true black & white print.

 2. Mpix color correction also includes adjusting contrast and density, so it is generally recommended to leave it on."

Spot on....Detail, tone, and contrast were excellent. I could go through the steps I went through to get what I saw on my screen but I'll just say I got what I anticipated and wasn't dissapointed in the least. Bottom line, MPIX did an excellent job. I wouldn't know what the other mediums would have looked like but I'll experiment a little as time goes on.

Framing: Again, totally satisfied. I frame myself and understand what's involved. I realize MPIX has this down from an efficiency perspective, they have to, that's part of how they keep their pricing competitive, but they don't do sloppy work to compensate for that efficiency. Glass and matt were perfectly clean, photo was mounted straight as I had cropped it, backing was straight and tight, mounting was installed neatly...

Zenfolio: I've been with Zenfolio since May and they and fellow members have helped me from day one. Zenfolio has made many improvements since then and I appreciate the results of their efforts. Thank you all for your responding to my posting. I read them intently and learn a lot from all of you. Photography is fun for me and I intend to keep it that way...Thank you all for helping me keep that perspective.

Dan

http://dansabin.zenfolio.com/