salsataco: good point on the mpix prices being lower on their site than zenfolio's.

 zenfolio: aren't you guys already taking a percentage? is it really necessary to have higher base prices, or have they lowered theirs and you just aren't keeping up?

salsataco:

 Just for fun I thought I would add that mpix base prices are even cheaper that zenfolios. Whose doing is that??

Any specific examples?

Wow.  It really does stink.  I pretended to be a visitor and I tried adding to collections and then proceeded to create a free account.  It is really confusing to the novice. I'd say who the hell is Zenfolio right before I sign up for a free membership. Then I realize that the photo that I was trying to add to my collection didn't even get added. In my confusion, I'll look at the page to try to figure out where my collection is.   I'll see the toolbox to the right and ask "what is a toolbox?"  If I were the bride looking to create a collection of my photos, I'd be saying what the hell is a referral code and why do I need Access Control.  I'd think" Isn't that my photographer job."  I'd unwittingly ask, "Why should I be tinkering with my photographers access control."  I'd also say, what the hell is a Metadata and what does base lab prices under Print Ordering mean.  

I agree completely with Zenfolio plugging their site over the premium customers.

Why do we even have the Zenfolio name so prominent in the website address.  This should be coded so it isn't highlighted!

 as far as zenfolio's name in the website address, you do have the option of using your own domain name...

BronxImages:

By the way - Mr zenfolio, you can delete the test account (test123456) that I created to draft this reply 

I deleted it for you although in general this type of request is best handled through Support.

Speaking on the subject, we agree there is plenty of room for improvement in this area. Eliminating Zenfolio name completely does not seem practical as your clients' credit card is charged by Zenfolio. If they don't know what Zenfolio is when they look at their credit card statement, we will get a chargeback. Dealing with chargebacks is costly for us and time-consuming for all parties involved.

Thank you all for this discussion, we are listening to your feedback even if we don't always reply.

AF [Zenfolio]:

Eliminating Zenfolio name completely does not seem practical as your clients' credit card is charged by Zenfolio. If they don't know what Zenfolio is when they look at their credit card statement, we will get a chargeback. Dealing with chargebacks is costly for us and time-consuming for all parties involved.

other companies deal with this by telling the customer in their confirmation page and confirmation email that their card will be charged by a different company.

BronxImages:

I pretended to be a visitor and I tried adding to collections and then proceeded to create a free account.  It is really confusing to the novice.  

Well, I'd say that's the bullseye comment of the whole thread.  I'm nothing to do with wedding photography myself, but that market would make an excellent standard for zenFolio to strive for with its premium account service. 

To the issue at hand...

Could collections be enabled to store their salient information in a cookie?  Don't know if that would be either a) really high-tech, or b) impossible, but it's the first thing that crossed my mind.  "Signed-out visitors should collect via cookies."  

But Bronx' comment above really points to the need for a non-photographer's "free customer account," without all the cruft and trappings we need to do our own business here.  A whole new strata "far removed" from the current account types.   

Finally, I understand (especially per credit card statements) while zenFolio can't completely remove its name from the process.   But on the other hand, I think vision (and progress) toward the pro photographer's "dream vending site" is exactly the key to zF's success.  So this seems to me like one of the most important issues ever raised in the forums here.  

AF [Zenfolio]:

Speaking on the subject, we agree there is plenty of room for improvement in this area. Eliminating Zenfolio name completely does not seem practical as your clients' credit card is charged by Zenfolio. If they don't know what Zenfolio is when they look at their credit card statement, we will get a chargeback. Dealing with chargebacks is costly for us and time-consuming for all parties involved.

Thank you all for this discussion, we are listening to your feedback even if we don't always reply.

Again (as I have before) I say that you can handle this very elegantly by placing the words on the page "The charge for this order will appear on your credit card statement as a charge from Zenfolio, Inc ([Zenfolio Customer Name]'s fulfillment partner)."  It absolutely does not require a Zenfolio-branded checkout page to inform the customer that the charge will be handled by a commerce partner.

You can further reinforce this by making the charge read Zenfolio, Inc : Photography Print Order (or some such designator to connect the charge back to the order that the buying customer will remember).

Thorne:

But Bronx' comment above really points to the need for a non-photographer's "free customer account," without all the cruft and trappings we need to do our own business here.  A whole new strata "far removed" from the current account types.

 I second Thorne's comment about the need for a non-photographers customer account type.  This would allow them to view order history, save their shipping/billing address(es), make it easier and less confusing for them to add photos to collections, and so on.  I even think it would be a great idea if the photographer could manage customer accounts through our own premium accounts.  This would allow us to set user names and passwords (in case we have a main website that contains password-protected areas...no need to have our customers remember different sets of user names/passwords) and so on without having to get the customer greatly involved in the process.

 However, even if a customer account type was created that simply removed that removed many options on the current Visitor account type, that would definitely be a step in the right direction...and from my web development/programming experience, should not be difficult to implement.  Some things that I see that can/should be removed are most of the right side menu ("Your Referrals", "Visitors", "Print Ordering" and "Access Control"), removed some of the options on the top menus (most options under "Preferences" and the ability to upload photos), and removed the left side menu at least on the Home page ("Organizer" and "Photographs").

 Thoughts?

Soukup:

 I second Thorne's comment about the need for a non-photographers customer account type.  This would allow them to view order history, save their shipping/billing address(es), make it easier and less confusing for them to add photos to collections, and so on.  I even think it would be a great idea if the photographer could manage customer accounts through our own premium accounts.  This would allow us to set user names and passwords (in case we have a main website that contains password-protected areas...no need to have our customers remember different sets of user names/passwords) and so on without having to get the customer greatly involved in the process.

I, also, am in complete agreement about this.

I confess that it had never crossed my mind that a "mere customer" (as opposed to a photographer) would see all our account functionality that would baffle them.  I always assumed they were just run through a basic transaction function (like daPrints does).  Or are two different things going on here?  

I second Aaron's point above about credit card transactions, by the way.  Anyone who purchases anything on the web is quite accustomed to those "will appear on your card as" statements.   

I just found out this last night about the actual sign-up process my clients will have to go through. I was curious about how much my clients would see about base prices and Mpix, so I logged out and checked out another photographer's site to try to place a dummy order. Never even thought I would have to sign up for another account. This would be very confusing to me if I were just a "customer", too. It could very well be the reason I haven't heard back from the client I initially set up my trial account here for. I'll have to give him a call. I am 1,000% in favor of my clients/customers/visitors NOT having to sign up for an account with all the decisions to figure out about access control, etc. I used an events hosting site that was nowhere near as professional looking as this. When my clients ordered from them, they didn't see all of that "back-end" looking information, nor did they see my base prices anywhere.

 I completely agree with you brah!

Sadly, it gets worse:  Tonight, Zenfolio actually contacted my client DIRECTLY without talking to me first.  

I was totally shocked that they didn't contact me first as their customer, before writing to my client. It made my customer confused and left me with a bigger mess than the original problem.

I really want to believe in this company, (AND I think they get real points for hosting a discussion group so that we can share our concerns.) However, this breach was even beyond my initial concern about the signup.

(Why doesn't Zenfolio understand that their PHOTOGRAPHERS are their customers first and behave professionally toward them? 

But this is so awful...how can I trust that this sort of intermediation with my clients won't keep happening!? Ugh.