Looking at the big picture, motion (as compared to still images) is just another way to express ourselves visually.  Technology is making motion more accessible and a bigger part of our culture.  Zenfolio can listen to some photographers and not do video.  But, that would be like photographers insisting way back that Kodak should not invent color film because it would take away from their black & white film.  As we all know, there is a place for both color & B&W images.

Zenfolio has a track record of doing things the right way.  It may take longer, but if they do video, it would not be at the expense of stills.  I am sure people would have the OPTION to have video on their site.  And if they go that route, they would pay more to pay for that infrastructure.

Personally, I have my client photos on Zenfolio, but have had to move my personal photos because I want stills and video in one location.  If I get into shooting video for clients, I will have to do the same thing. 

^ I think you said it right. "Videos" are nothing more than a collection of moving images thrown together to create motion, like a flip-book. Taking stills & shooting videos are basically the same exact concepts in that you are capturing images. And with technology progressing the way it is, those concepts are finally able to merge like never before.

They'll ALWAYS be naysayers, doubters & just those who resist change. It happens every single time new technology or new concepts are introduced. People by nature resist change usually because it's scary. But I feel this is inevitable & there is no sense in just trying to ignore it & be stubborn about it. That's foolish.

What usually ends up happening is that those who resist change & progress are usually the ones who end up getting left behind. I'd hate to see this happen to Zenfolio.

Kerry:

They'll ALWAYS be naysayers, doubters & just those who resist change. It happens every single time new technology or new concepts are introduced. People by nature resist change usually because it's scary. But I feel this is inevitable & there is no sense in just trying to ignore it & be stubborn about it. That's foolish.

Excuse me, but I take issue with your characterization.  Simply dismissing concerns as "fraidiness" and "foolishness" strikes me as rather asinine (and therefore, in your own case, unusual).  There are legitimate reasons to be not be on board or thrilled about this "progress" of which you speak - don't act like someone is less stalwart or clear-headed just because their priorities are different than yours.  There is always such a thing, at least theoretically, as "change for the worse."  (We could, for example, get into a long discussion about whether TV itself has actually panned out to be "a good thing," and each side could make valid arguments.)  

I think it's completely legitimate to think zenFolio staff have "better things to do" than a whole new kettle of fish, for example.   And despite its casual dismissal above, video support will be a huge resource hog compared to hosting images (requiring at a minimum new servers and storage and all the new technical/financial implications of a commitment to hosting them, especially if you guys get your 1080).  And there is a potential for foolishness or embarrassing frivolity (a concern only alleviated by the new comments system in practice, because it ensures our freedom not to  "live in the same neighborhood" if we don't want to, but we couldn't feel confident of that when this discussion started).  

You could call concern over those issues "stubborn and foolish," but I could call them "pragmatic priorities" and/or "respect for photography."  One of those views is not quite like the other - it doesn't plainly belittle the opposition.

Just sayin'.    

Kerry:

Taking stills & shooting videos are basically the same exact concepts in that you are capturing images.

By the way, I'd take massive issue with that statement, but I wouldn't want to risk belittling you.  ; )

Again, Thorne you're wanting to get into a "my concerns are just as valid as yours" pissing match. That is NOT the point. There are pros & cons to everything & we can all argue them 'till the cows come home. That doesn't change the fact that convergence is happening whether we want it to or not. My point is simply for Zenfolio not to fight it or turn a blind eye toward it & pretend that it's not happening. They're a business & they should stay competitive, no matter what we think.

How about letting Zenfolio do the research and find out the pros and cons of video for THEIR website service.  People are just guessing when they say there will or won't be problems.  As I mentioned before, Zenfolio does things right. Maybe they would outsource the technical side of video implementation so they are not stretched so thin.  Let's have a little faith in their judgement.  

 Wow, a lot of passionate people commenting on this subject, some of which are very grumpy.

Here is the deal. If you disagree with this then please save this post so you can see how rediculously stupid you sound in a few months.

For many, many photographers, video will be essential in the very near future. 1080 is just the tip of the iceburg, and struggling to host 1080 video will be a laughable subject within a year. Nobody is asking the photography, hosting of photos, or speed and quality of your photos to diminish or suffer in any way. This is a very exciting time to be a photographer if you are willing to adapt. I, for one, am excited to meet the changing needs of my clients, and want to make sure that I am at the forefront of that change. 

Those of you still bitching are probably still mad about the move from film to digital. Hopefully this helps turn on the light in that very dark room you are sitting in.

Chris

Kerry:

Again, Thorne you're wanting to get into a "my concerns are just as valid as yours" pissing match. 

No, not my intention (unless you insist on the opposite).  My point was that labeling the opposition as foolish and fearful wasn't legitimate, and also that you haven't tended to do so in the past, so I thought it was rather "a new low."  That's why I was so surprised by it.  You've been arguing your case strongly for a long time, and I've learned a lot from listening to you, but to simply dismiss objections (and the priorities of others) as foolishness and "fear of change" seemed out of left field to me.  

To your credit, you have otherwise convinced me that I should basically just shut up and tolerate this "inevitable convergence."  You have helped me see that I am probably in a significant minority, and that many zenFolio users have drastically different priorities than mine.  (Your current site, incidentally, helps me see that too.)  You (and others in this thread) have also led me to appreciate ways that video could be a real asset to similarly art-minded and sales-driven photographers like myself.  You've made all this progress (with me personally anyway) and helped me second-guess my own assumptions not by dismissing my concerns as "foolishness." 

So I just felt a need to stick my head up and say, Whoa, that seemed like a cheap shot.  I didn't feel any need to re-assert the relative merits of my views until you seemed to casually deride them.  

Thorne:

Kerry:

Again, Thorne you're wanting to get into a "my concerns are just as valid as yours" pissing match. 

 

No, not my intention (unless you insist on the opposite).  My point was that labeling the opposition as foolish and fearful wasn't legitimate, and also that you haven't tended to do so in the past, so I thought it was rather "a new low."  That's why I was so surprised by it.  You've been arguing your case strongly for a long time, and I've learned a lot from listening to you, but to simply dismiss objections (and the priorities of others) as foolishness and "fear of change" seemed out of left field to me.  

To your credit, you have otherwise convinced me that I should basically just shut up and tolerate this "inevitable convergence."  You have helped me see that I am probably in a significant minority, and that many zenFolio users have drastically different priorities than mine.  (Your current site, incidentally, helps me see that too.)  You (and others in this thread) have also led me to appreciate ways that video could be a real asset to similarly art-minded and sales-driven photographers like myself.  You've made all this progress (with me personally anyway) and helped me second-guess my own assumptions not by dismissing my concerns as "foolishness." 

So I just felt a need to stick my head up and say, Whoa, that seemed like a cheap shot.  I didn't feel any need to re-assert the relative merits of my views until you seemed to casually deride them.  

 

I honestly wasnt trying to come off like I know what's best for everyone. Everyone has their own wants & needs. And also I wasn't calling anyone who opposed videos foolish, so you may have misunderstood. I was saying to just ignore, dismiss or deny the trend of high quality photos & videos getting converged together into the same devices & therefore in the same sites is indeed foolish. Not foolish people, foolish thinking. It's happening & we all have to just deal. And that means Zenfolio will have to accept it as well & stay competitive, no matter what a couple people arguing on a forum in cyberspace have to say. What we personally think doesn't matter because we can't control it.

I do think there's more pros than cons though. There's really no good arguments against it rather than some technical ones here & there, which are mostly unfounded. So I do think a lot of the opposition is stubbornness or a fear of change. That's not an insult, I just think it's human nature. Many people get comfortable with concepts and/or websites & then resist any further progress. It happens. So I think a lot of this isn't really about whether or not Zenfolio should implement a feature (videos), it's more to do with a change of focus or shift into a new realm that many photographers aren't quite ready to accept right now.

I promise I don't take cheap shots. At least not intentionally. I am pretty direct either way though & dont really tip toe around my thoughts & concerns, both in my real life & online life. So I dont mean to sound harsh. If I did, my apologies.  The only reason I even post here is because I like the site & the staff so much & want to see them succeed. So that means staying current, listening to the trends & going with the flow.

Kerry:

I promise I don't take cheap shots. At least not intentionally. I am pretty direct either way though & dont really tip toe around my thoughts & concerns, both in my real life & online life. So I dont mean to sound harsh. If I did, my apologies.

That's cool, thanks.  Like I said, "it didn't sound like you."

And I hope you see that I've backed off a couple of my original positions (if not all of them).  Personally, I do wish at least one service would cater to print-selling photography purists, and focus all their resources on that, but like I said, I've realized I am probably in the minority here.  Your site is illustrative of a whole different point of view that is probably much more common than mine (and probably driving more business than I'd guessed into photo hosting companies generally).  

So (for the record), I'd only finesse or disagree with two broader points you made.  a) Sometimes people fear changes for good reasons, i.e., sometimes change is bad, and skepticism isn't necessarily a failing of human nature.  And b) I'll never believe that "what we personally think" doesn't matter, because there should be nothing more powerful than a reasonable analysis.  Especially not here, where the zF team have shown a good ear for listening.  (Which, by the way, is the reason I assume they've stayed quiet and just observed the discussion in here.) 

Anyway, I'll relent rather than continue to highjack the discussion.  You're right that at some point, adding to "what we think" doesn't do much more good.  ; )

dandonovan1:

How about letting Zenfolio do the research and find out the pros and cons of video for THEIR website service.  People are just guessing when they say there will or won't be problems.  As I mentioned before, Zenfolio does things right. Maybe they would outsource the technical side of video implementation so they are not stretched so thin.  Let's have a little faith in their judgement.

I second this! I actually FIRST it, considering I wrote the same thing with much greather length two pages ago.

Bottom line: If you have to have video today make a statement by going somewhere else Like Kerry and dandonovan1 already did. The more people Zenfolio loses because of lack of video the more they will realize they need it. When (not if) Zenfolio finally implements video hosting, people who think it is a bad idea can make another statement by not signing up at a higher cost just to have this service, leaving them for good beacuse of increased cost or because of slower speeds if (not when) any of these negative efects would happen.

Like I wrote earlier, it will come down to economics and not personal preference. FWIW I started writing my own CMS with a decent image gallery using the Zend Framework last week. I have another 11 months to complete the task before my subscription runs out.....

Flickr just announced their new HD video player. Here is an example.

Is Zenfolio listening?? With Smugmug & Flickr going HD, this makes Zenfolio the last of the big name pro photo-sharing sites to be without video support.

 I would really like to see support for video soon and hope Zenfolio is listening!

JVC

Panasonic

Malte

Malte:

JVC

Panasonic

Yep. This is the time of year when all the camera manufacturers announce their lineup for the year & I swear almost every point & shoot, dSLR & everything in between is doing at least HD at 720p video, pretty much like I predicted (but its not like that was rocket science. A blind man could have saw that coming).

So let's look at this from a typical user's POV. That basically means that if a user picked up one of these cameras, they would only be able to show off half it's capabilities in online galleries if they were a Zenfolio customer. And frankly if they didnt already have a Zenfolio account & were looking at online hosts, who do you think they're gonna go with (or not go with I should say)??