We are with you 100%, and we are working on making this happen. As previously mentioned, we will offer a solution that balances customization abilities with the need to keep our layouts and themes clean and professional. This feature is not the easiest one, as we have to maintain backwards compatibility with our current themes. However, we are working on it. 

Hi, I'm not sure I understand this reasoning. Why not give users complete control over the CSS and how our pages are laid out? It seems to me that once a user starts tweaking their own css that they should expect only a limited amount of support. So if I go in and screw up my page's css and my page draws all the elements in the upper left corner of the page all on top of each other, then that's really my fault. Not Zenfolios. I can always revert my page back to one of the supplied templates. I would not expect my photo hosting company to debug my css for me.

I've spent a fair amount of time comparing the leading photohosting companies to one another, and this is where Zenfolio really doesn't measure up. For example, Smugmug's customization support allows you to truly reskin your page.

I think there are two teirs of customization that could be done here:

1. allow modifications to existing themes, e.g. add business card header, move stuff around a bit, change the colors. Imho, this is largely boilerplate and nearly worthless in the long run.
   
2. complete control of css and even javascript.
   

Imho, 2 would be easier to give us and it could spur a culture of trading and even selling custom templates that could really take on a life of its own. The editing capabilities of this feature, at its core, would be for people like me who know how to use css (I'm a professional software dude), and wouldn't be for the average user. However, it WOULD allow professional software people to build pages for professional photographers, which would be very valuable. It would allow non technical photographers at any level to use custom templates built by software hobbiests (and professionals). Take livebooks.com for example, they have fantastic professional pages, but are VERY expensive. I don't know what their market share is for Pros, but I bet it's a high number.

Why not empower those that can and are willing to take their Zenfolio pages to the next level? Give us the tools. It seems like and win win to me - e.g. we get better pages, Zenfolio attracts more (high end) customers. Everyone wins.

In the end, the current lack of support for customization may be a deal buster for people like me with the skills and/or desire to present our own look and feel. And, imho, this really could be considered a baseline feature for all photohosting sites that want to cater to serious people (e.g. not people dumping snapshots on photobucket) going forward in this web 2.x world.

Just my opinion. :-)

thanks

Mike, you do have the right expectations, but I'm sure you know that you are in minority. As a professional software dude, you will agree that opening the CSS is a very hairy proposition from the support standpoint. There are at least 9 browsers that have to be supported. Broken CSS pages will make photographers look really bad in the eyes of their customers, which in turn hurt Zenfolio reputation. Let's face it, coding CSS is far from trivial, and when things will not work, we will end up debugging CSS code of coders-wanna-be's. 

Now, imagine, what would happen if we need to change the internal structure of the pages. We will have to face the nightmare of backward compatibility, which will limit our ability to innovate. Remember the pains of transitioning to the new file format in Microsoft Office?

At the end, it is also question of philosophy. Even having the most powerful design tools, most of the time results will not be pretty.We don't have to look far for examples. How many awful Powerpoint presentations have you seen? I've seen a lot. How many ugly Keynote presentations have you seen? None. Do you see my point now? 

 I would like to be able to display a larger image on the home page, and it would be nice to have the option to have it like the zenfolio homepage, where it varies between perhaps 10 different images so it keeps it looking fresh..

Vitas [Zenfolio]:

Mike, you do have the right expectations, but I'm sure you know that you are in minority. As a professional software dude, you will agree that opening the CSS is a very hairy proposition from the support standpoint. There are at least 9 browsers that have to be supported. Broken CSS pages will make photographers look really bad in the eyes of their customers, which in turn hurt Zenfolio reputation. Let's face it, coding CSS is far from trivial, and when things will not work, we will end up debugging CSS code of coders-wanna-be's. 

Now, imagine, what would happen if we need to change the internal structure of the pages. We will have to face the nightmare of backward compatibility, which will limit our ability to innovate. Remember the pains of transitioning to the new file format in Microsoft Office?

At the end, it is also question of philosophy. Even having the most powerful design tools, most of the time results will not be pretty.We don't have to look far for examples. How many awful Powerpoint presentations have you seen? I've seen a lot. How many ugly Keynote presentations have you seen? None. Do you see my point now? 

No I do not see your point. 

I don’t do not think it is Zenfolio’s responsibility to insure my page layout is classic as you define it. Your job is to provide a service and that service includes providing the tools and means to allow us to present our photography in whatever format and look we deem fit.

Look we all understand the desire for Zenfolio to be easy to use… in fact, I understand that may be the primary focus of Zen, to provide a place that even a novice can display his/her work in a clean format, without much effort or skill in web design. What concerns me is that by promoting yourself as a home for “Professional Photographers” you must, at minimum, provide us the tools that most (if not all) other Professional Photographers site provide.  ( CSS, HTML site customization, Search Engine Optimization, META Tags, custom layouts) just to mention a few… 

Zenfolio has many things going for it… and yes easy of use is high on that list. But if you want to attract (and keep) Professional Photographers you have to provide “options” that are becoming standards.  If not I believe you will find there will be less people, like me, willing to setup a much more customizable 2nd site, on another provider, just so people can both find my work (Search Engine Optimization) and so I can present it in the layout I choose.

Look here is an idea… offer another subscription level.  Call it Pro-Plus… I for one would be willing to spend a little more to have the convenience of one site that offers all the benefits of Zenfolio with all the customizations offered by other “Professional Photography sites”.  Sure maybe only a small group of current members would opt to upgrade… but you would also open your doors to the business many of your rivals are now capturing….  I’m sure I’m not alone in having a desire to make Zenfolio my Only home.

Ez
 

"Pro Plus" is an interesting idea.  

My first inclination was to agree with Vitas.  I thought to myself, if someone can roll all their own code, why do they need zenFolio?  But then I realized that there are numerous other desirable zF features and services outside of presentation that are useful and outside the realm of formatting code.  So maybe it would be "ideal" to offer coder-types a best of both worlds.  So I see both points of view, obviously, though I'm partial toward giving coders the "rights" to do with their page as they will.  

But without going so far as that, could zenFolio at least provide some basic frameworks and requirements, and let people at least submit their own skins/template ideas?  I.e., if someone's willing to do that work for free, and "donate" it to the zF community, shouldn't that door be open to them?   

But keeping in mind that any ideas from "out here" aren't informed by what's going on "in there."  I.e., none of us know what's planned internally for template advancement.  So I'm just throwing out notions to consider.   

Vitas [Zenfolio]:

Mike, you do have the right expectations, but I'm sure you know that you are in minority. As a professional software dude, you will agree that opening the CSS is a very hairy proposition from the support standpoint. There are at least 9 browsers that have to be supported. Broken CSS pages will make photographers look really bad in the eyes of their customers, which in turn hurt Zenfolio reputation. Let's face it, coding CSS is far from trivial, and when things will not work, we will end up debugging CSS code of coders-wanna-be's. 

Now, imagine, what would happen if we need to change the internal structure of the pages. We will have to face the nightmare of backward compatibility, which will limit our ability to innovate. Remember the pains of transitioning to the new file format in Microsoft Office?

At the end, it is also question of philosophy. Even having the most powerful design tools, most of the time results will not be pretty.We don't have to look far for examples. How many awful Powerpoint presentations have you seen? I've seen a lot. How many ugly Keynote presentations have you seen? None. Do you see my point now? 

I respectfully disagree here, though I totally understand what you're saying. But just because it's hard (and hairy ;-), doesn't mean it shouldn't be done (and other companies are and will do it). I actually think it is really a requirement for any company who want to be one of the players in the future. The interwebs are moving toward customization and social networking - e.g making your own place in the virtual world and sharing it.

That doesn't mean that Zenfolio isn't a great site, it is. In fact when I just logged in to the site to write this I really noticed how fast the home page loaded. Nice. Performance IS a feature. I also like how stuff like keywords are done properly. Attention to detail. What's there is really great. Of course, like anything else, we always wish for more. :-)

Thanks,

Mike

Thorne:

"Pro Plus" is an interesting idea.  

My first inclination was to agree with Vitas.  I thought to myself, if someone can roll all their own code, why do they need zenFolio? 

This may be obvious, but just in case it isn't (and my apologies if it is), I Just wanted to point out that there is a gargantuan, massive, and enormous difference between tweaking an existing site with css and rolling your own site. Did I mention there's a huge difference? :-)

Remember that css just describes how the page looks. The website you're visiting sends this info down to your machine so your browser knows how to display the site.

Now what happens on the server is the thing that whole ginourmous sections of the computer industry are built on. You're dealing with very challenging issues like scale, geo-location, and data security, to name just a few of the many many issues. :-)

So there's that. That's why I'm super happy to pay someone to host my photo site for me. And I do web software for a living (I work on http://calendar.live.com). 

Roger that, Mike.  I hope you see all those issues "between the lines" of the thought process I described.  I was just being honest that I had to second-guess my first impression to imagine the scope of them.  

You know, for the benefit of anyone else sharing that faulty first impression.  ; ) 

We are making strides in adding theme customization capabilities to our back-end engine. We will discuss Mike's proposal within the team to see if it is something feasible to put into the future plans. We are listening... 

 Fantastic! Let me know if you need a beta tester... :-)

Hello

I am new to the forums and just signed up for my first year as a premium subscriber. The first thing I wanted to do having removed the Zenfolio branding was to add my business logo.

Has any head way been made on this since this thread went quiet?

Thanks

Matt

Woops. Double post.

holly:

 I would like to be able to display a larger image on the home page, and it would be nice to have the option to have it like the zenfolio homepage, where it varies between perhaps 10 different images so it keeps it looking fresh..

It bothers how many times people have asked for customization and we've yet to see major changes. Someone called my portfolio a 'blog' today. No wonder, I suppose, despite my attempts to keep it as clean and fresh looking as possible it does sort of look like a blog. I want a portfolio, not a blog. If by the time my subscription is up next year zenfolio hasn't improved its customization, I likely won't renew and have heard similar statements from other photographers I know locally who use zenfolio.

I think what annoys me slightly about this issue (apart from no response to my posting on this subject) is that all I want on my zenfolio site is exactly what Zenfolio has on its own home page. A nice slideshow of great images showing off a great brand.

Don't get me wrong, I love what zenfolio does from a proofing for clients point of view but I am now getting calls from Pictage asking me to consider their services and to be honest what they provide (At a premium) is really nicely presented and looks very professional. Begining to think it might be worth the extra money.

Matt