Better search engine page opimization is definitely on our short list, I have added that to the list of approved feaures. Thank you for pointing this out, Dave.

Thanks for quick update Alex.

I see a lot of folks asking CSS.  And I want CSS.  But I'd be really surprised if user control of CSS is the feature most users really want.  I would bet dollars to donuts most users would be happier with a simple system to customize the colors of the main theme elements.  This would also be much easier to document and easier to implement in a way that is reliable.

Don't stop working on CSS, but I don't think the ability to change the link color from orange to blue, or tweek the background color or the body text color need to wait on a complete CSS system or require the complexity of user interface that would go with a complete CSS system.

I too would love (at least some) customization of the CSS even if it's just a series of picklists to alter the background colour(s) via 6-figure hex codes, font-name, font size and hypertext colours. It would certainly put a dent in the side of the smug Smugmug users who shout about their superior customization options.

stephenlinhart:

I see a lot of folks asking CSS.  And I want CSS.  But I'd be really surprised if user control of CSS is the feature most users really want.

No, it may not be what people will call what they want, but it is one pretty valid & "easy" option for allowing a wide range of customization without much infrastructure.

just look at how myspace customization -- done just by placing CSS and HTML into a few random text fields -- was taken as far as it has.

Sure, aesthetically no one would ever want to point to myspace, and there are a few sitewide support issues* that might come into play with freeform css options, but giving users a big form field to dump copy+pasted CSS code is a decent enough option, that would mean less, not more, infrastructure then a full blown admin interface to tweak all of 50 something different approved rules.

* who would users complain to if a site owner broke something: zen support.

Another quick and dirty option would be to allow a single external CSS file to be linked from the pages [after existing theme files].

Again, the option has its plusses and minues, and zenfolio would have to decide if they could support such a system [from a help & communication standpoint], but from a technical implementaiton standpoint it might be another way to go that could be done fast. Then again, the non-technical would just have to wait for someone else to offer to share updates, or make their own little tool for designating font sizes, colors, etc.

I would prefer the ability to edit or create themes without having to do any CSS coding.

Pat...:

 

Blogger did it right (and fairly simply). They gave users full control over their page by giving them access to their own templates. They also have pre-made themes (like zenfolio). People that don't know this stuff can simply use premade themes. You don't need to provide support for editing css and html, other than maybe a dedicated forum because it would just be an advanced option. Just simply refer people to http://w3schools.com to learn for themselves in a sticky in a customization forum.

This would allow users with web design knowledge or users hiring web designers to efficiently and cleanly change the look of their galleries to fit their branding. As far as I know, no other photo host offers this level of customization. This would put Zenfolio above other photo hosts.

This makes eminent sense.  Blogger is a nice example of providing ready-made templates while allowing user customization for those who want to take that on. 

Dan

I've chosen zenfolio over smugmug because the visitor interface looks slightly better with fullscreen lightbox and due to the fact that it has a lab in europe.

However, to be honest, the themes really suck.

There is no neutral theme at all, which is very desirable as a photographer showing pictures to possible customers. The grey ones are great, but why the fancy colors? Makes it look pretty ridiculous.

Please give us at least the ability to modify borders, boxes and font colors.

Please please please, this is where smugmug really is superior... and it's such a basic feature...

According to the word on the street (well several other threads addressing this anyways), theme customizations are coming in the next release...which is expected before the end of the year.

Pat...:

As far as I know, no other photo host offers this level of customization. This would put Zenfolio above other photo hosts.

PBase allowed for ages to attach per gallery custom CSS file. They have a forum where people take standard PBase theme CSS file as template, change them and then post back for non-techies. Being myself a developer frankly I can't see why it's such a big deal to implement this system unless internally Zenfolio doesn't use CSS altogether. To generate gallery pages you use custom CSS instead of the standard one. That's it unless I miss something.

I believe in part some of the hesitancy comes from the hassles created by techie-level features being made available to the general public.

Someone new to css (or doesn't know what we are talking about now) changes border.width to 'red' (instead of 3px) and then doesn't know why it's all crashing will be contacting support, and they will get inundated with 'help me!' requests, users who don't understand or believe they did anything wrong will holler about how bad the Zenfolio hosting is in other forums (I've seen this happen with another Zen feature, coming from a Pro user in a paid Pro forum).

There is just alot of potential for much negative energy coming from such a move, and yes you could just select a stock theme and put your site back, but the tons of support requests will come, and will have to be staffed to respond to it, or present staff will have to wade through it to say "we don't offer css support, select a stock theme to restore your site".

I personally would LOVE to have full css capabilities.  I would love to fix mine up, create different themes for free and others for sale, and offer full customization to Zennies for a fee.  But I'm also a realist and see how it could become a nightmare for Zenfolio, and so far they are doing excellent work in everything and hate to see them create a PR nightmare for themselves.

Just my thoughts.  And the programmers at Zen are a helluva lot smarter than I, so maybe they will come up with some options to allow full CSS customization that will limit how much the inexperienced can do wrong and become irritated like I did (and still do) when learning CSS.

As someone who has battled with CSS to create websites (and won!) I agree with you Kevin. Even today what works with standards-compliant browsers e.g. Firefox, Safari and Opera can break or look poor using IE7 or IE8 and as such I have had to resort to two separate CSS files for one of my sites:

http://www.class50.net/

Perhaps a way forward would be to ZF to not allow TOTAL 'free form' CSS customisation but merely allow users to pick font types, sizes, background colours etc from pick-boxes. The values from these choices could then be passed to any of the current standard templates.

However I DO like the sound of a group of users creating themes for the rest of the ZF community.

yes...the ability to create themes, have them available for download with the ability to be 'plugged in' somehow...  that would be fun.  :)